Legislature(2011 - 2012)BUTROVICH 205

02/19/2011 10:00 AM Senate RESOURCES


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
-- Note Day and Time --
+= SB 24 SPORT FISHING GUIDES: BOARD; LICENSES TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
Public Comment
+= SB 44 SOUTHEAST STATE FOREST TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
Public Comment
             SB  24-SPORT FISHING GUIDING SERVICES                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WAGONER announced the consideration of SB 24.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
10:32:10 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR MCGUIRE, sponsor of SB  24, said this bill was introduced                                                               
with an eye towards the resources  of the state. Fisheries is one                                                               
of the most important resources  in Alaska and is divided between                                                               
commercial and  sport fisheries. She noted  that sports fisheries                                                               
are complex because they are  accessed by Alaskans independently,                                                               
through guides,  and through  tourism. As  tourism in  Alaska has                                                               
grown there  has been  a groundswell of  fishing guide  use. This                                                               
has led to  increased river pressure, particularly  in the Kenai-                                                               
Soldotna area  and in Southeast.  SB 24 has been  brought forward                                                               
as  a way  of extending  the guide  license program  currently in                                                               
place. She explained that the bill  was originally meant to be an                                                               
extension of  the bill  passed last year  [SB 294,  passed during                                                               
the  26th  Alaska  State  Legislature]. SB  294  had  a  one-year                                                               
sunset, which means that without a  bill, there will no longer be                                                               
a sport  fish guide  licensing program  in Alaska.  She explained                                                               
that this would have a negative  effect on the state for two main                                                               
reasons.  First, is  the management  of the  resources. She  said                                                               
that the logbook  program that has been put into  place gives the                                                               
Alaska Department of Fish and  Game (ADF&G) the necessary data to                                                               
track and manage the fisheries stocks.  Second, it is a matter of                                                               
safety.  She  explained that  it  is  important that  guides  are                                                               
trained to safely care for their guests.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SB   24   originally   incorporated   a   lot   of   task   force                                                               
recommendations, primarily  from 2006, which  was met with  a lot                                                               
of negativity from  Alaskans. She noted that a  majority of those                                                               
recommendations  were withdrawn  and a  stripped-down version  of                                                               
the  bill was  reintroduced  on the  Senate  floor that  strictly                                                               
addresses the  sunset. She requested  that SB  24 go into  a task                                                               
force  over the  interim in  order to  work with  the public  and                                                               
figure out what to do with these controversial recommendations.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
She  asked testifiers  to take  her statement  into consideration                                                               
when making their testimony.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
10:40:10 AM                                                                                                                   
CO-CHAIR WAGONER opened public testimony.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
10:40:58 AM                                                                                                                   
SONNY PETERSEN,  Member, Katmai  Service Providers,  testified in                                                               
opposition of SB  24 in its current form. He  asked the committee                                                               
when he could  expect to see a  new bill and when  the task force                                                               
would meet.  He explained  that SB  24, in  its current  form, is                                                               
entirely unworkable  for sport fishing  operations and  would not                                                               
allow  any of  the  outfits  to operate.  The  lodges in  western                                                               
Alaska have a good reputation and  there is no need to have these                                                               
types  of  licensing requirements.  He  suggested  that if  these                                                               
requirements  are  necessary  in  other parts  of  the  state  as                                                               
Senator McGuire indicated, then  these individuals should come up                                                               
with something for their specific area.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  WAGONER  noted that  he  is  looking  at the  month  of                                                               
October,  when  guides  are  not  as busy,  for  the  task  force                                                               
meetings and hearings.  He said that the composition  of the task                                                               
force has not been formulated yet.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
10:45:53 AM                                                                                                                   
ANDREW COUCH, representing himself,  opposed the establishment of                                                               
a  Sport Fishing  Guide  Services Board.  He  explained that  the                                                               
current  guide  licensing  program  makes it  difficult  to  hire                                                               
guides who  meet the requirements  and limit the number  of local                                                               
Alaskans that he  can hire. He explained that the  changes in the                                                               
program have only  produced more required paperwork  and cost him                                                               
more money. In regards to  safety, these requirements are already                                                               
required for Coast Guard licensing.  He stressed that SB 24 would                                                               
add  cost  to   the  industry  and  the  state.   He  noted  that                                                               
individuals who  can't afford  the higher  charter costs  may not                                                               
participate  and  will  reduce  the charter  business.  He  asked                                                               
whether  there  has been  any  support  from individuals  in  the                                                               
industry.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
10:50:14 AM                                                                                                                   
MELVIN  GROVE,  President,  Prince  William  Sound  Charter  Boat                                                               
Association,   strongly  opposed   SB  24.   He  said   that  the                                                               
association's  primary concern  is that  a real  problem has  not                                                               
been identified. For  example, it has been claimed  that there is                                                               
a  "groundswell  of  guides"  in  the  sports  fishing  industry.                                                               
However, the  current data  from ADF&G shows  that the  number of                                                               
guides has  been steadily  dropping over the  last few  years. He                                                               
stressed that some  benefits need to be included  within the bill                                                               
for  the  industry, such  as  increased  fishing allocations  and                                                               
state sponsored marketing incentives.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
10:54:52 AM                                                                                                                   
STEVE  RUNYAN,  representing  himself, expressed  strong  concern                                                               
about SB 24. He said  state governments everywhere are scrambling                                                               
for ways to  trim costs and keep within the  budget and this bill                                                               
creates  another level  of bureaucracy.  The costs  of SB  24 are                                                               
numerous  and the  benefits, financially,  are  low. He  stressed                                                               
that  the problem  statement and  the benefit  statement to  this                                                               
bill are  highly overblown. He  explained that  having government                                                               
oversight beyond  what is already  contained in the  sports guide                                                               
licensing book is  not necessary or cost  effective. He suggested                                                               
that the  issue of  the sunset for  sport fishing  licenses could                                                               
easily be addressed  by holding an up-down vote in  the Senate on                                                               
the  current  guidebook  system.  The Senate's  energy  would  be                                                               
better used by looking at  the statewide Chinook salmon shortage,                                                               
particularly in the Matanuska-Susitna Valley.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
10:58:40 AM                                                                                                                   
MELISSA BORTON, Travel Administrator,  Native Village of Afognak,                                                               
testified  in opposition  of SB  24. She  said that  she had  the                                                               
opportunity to sit in on the  task force meetings that took place                                                               
in  preparation  for  this  bill.  She  said  that  during  these                                                               
meetings  she felt  that  the rural  communities  were not  being                                                               
represented.  Further,  the  discussions  were  centered  on  the                                                               
conflicts occurring  in the Kenai  area and were  not necessarily                                                               
applicable  to  Kodiak. She  recognized  how  quickly the  sports                                                               
fishing industry  has grown  and that there  is abuse  that takes                                                               
place  throughout  the  industry. However,  enacting  legislation                                                               
such  as SB  24, which  affects the  regions differently,  should                                                               
require a more  extensive public process. She said  that this was                                                               
missing in  the process leading up  to this bill. She  noted that                                                               
the  one  community  meeting  held  in  Kodiak  had  overwhelming                                                               
opposition to SB 24.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
11:00:31 AM                                                                                                                   
REUBEN HANKE,  sport fishing and  big game hunting  guide, agreed                                                               
with Senator McGuire that  it is a good idea to  take a step back                                                               
and look into  the issues addressed in SB 24  some more. He noted                                                               
that he  was a member  of the original  task force. He  said that                                                               
this  bill  identifies  the  people  who  provide  sport  fishing                                                               
activities,  which  the current  licensing  system  does not  do.                                                               
There are many individuals in  the state that provide services to                                                               
the  sport  fishing   industry  and  this  bill   would  help  in                                                               
understanding the size and scope of the sport fishing industry.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
11:02:42 AM                                                                                                                   
ANDREW CESSNE, upper  Kenai River guide, testified  in support of                                                               
SB  24. He  explained  that, for  him, making  a  living on  this                                                               
resource is a privilege, not a right.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
11:03:34 AM                                                                                                                   
RICKY  GEASE,  Executive  Director, Kenai  River  Sports  Fishing                                                               
Association (KRSA), testified  in support of SB 24.  He said that                                                               
KRSA  agrees  with the  problem  statement  regarding the  sports                                                               
fishing industry. He explained that  there is no common voice for                                                               
the industry in  the Alaskan governmental process,  nor are there                                                               
ethical standards  for conduct of  business, safety,  or service.                                                               
He  noted that  many people  do  meet the  requirements, but  not                                                               
everybody  does  and this  tarnishes  the  state's sport  fishing                                                               
reputation. He added  that KRSA also supports SB 24  going into a                                                               
subcommittee  process and  extending  the  logbook sunset  during                                                               
this time.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
11:05:38 AM                                                                                                                   
KEVIN DELANEY,  Fisheries Consultant, Kenai River  Sports Fishing                                                               
Association (KRSA),  commented on  SB 24  and noted  that further                                                               
assessment  of the  sports fishing  industry is  needed. He  said                                                               
that the guide  registry program was implemented  during the time                                                               
that  he  was  the  director  of  Sports  Fishing  at  ADF&G.  He                                                               
explained  that  it  was  never ADF&G's  intent  that  the  guide                                                               
registry program  would be  the end-all  in this  process. During                                                               
this time  the division recognized the  tremendous economic value                                                               
of the  industry and wanted to  assure that it would  continue to                                                               
compete   on  a   world-wide  basis.   He   explained  that   the                                                               
registration process has evolved  into the licensing program that                                                               
is in place now and he  has been supportive of this. However, the                                                               
framework in place today doesn't  adequately allow for assessment                                                               
of who is  involved in the field today, he  said. He stressed the                                                               
importance of continuing to pursue these principals.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
11:09:19 AM                                                                                                                   
DENISE  MAY,  owner and  operator,  Whale  Pass Lodge,  expressed                                                               
concerns  about SB  24. She  said  her greatest  concern is  that                                                               
rural  communities  and villages  around  the  state need  to  be                                                               
included by  giving adequate notice  on the issue and  having the                                                               
opportunity  for input  and comment.  She noted  her appreciation                                                               
for Senator  McGuire in taking a  step back on the  bill to allow                                                               
individuals time  to gather information  and understand  what the                                                               
legislature is trying to accomplish.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
11:12:20 AM                                                                                                                   
JACK CADIGAN, Owner and Captain,  Adventures in Alaska, expressed                                                               
strong concerns about SB 24 in  its current form. He said he does                                                               
not  want  a  duplicate  a set  of  regulations  where  licensing                                                               
requirements already exist, along  with the associated costs. Mr.                                                               
Cadigan listed a number of  the requirements already in place for                                                               
sports fishing guides.  He said that most  charter operations far                                                               
exceed  the  basic  level  of competency  needed.  He  urged  the                                                               
committee to  amend SB 24 so  that it solely addresses  the areas                                                               
in the state where problems might exist.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
11:17:19 AM                                                                                                                   
BOB MAY, Owner and Operator,  Whale Pass Lodge, expressed concern                                                               
about  SB 24.  He  said  that at  the  public  meeting in  Kodiak                                                               
regarding this bill,  not one was in favor it.  He noted that the                                                               
bill states that  an individual must be 18 years  old before they                                                               
"can take  a fish off the  hook." However, his kids  learned long                                                               
before this  age to do  more than that. He  said that there  is a                                                               
lot that has  been excluded from this bill.  He acknowledged that                                                               
there  have  been  issues  on  the  Kenai  Peninsula;  but  these                                                               
problems   don't   exist   in   Kodiak.  He   added   that   more                                                               
representation is  needed in Alaska's  villages. He asked  when a                                                               
new bill will be brought forward in  replace of SB 24 and how the                                                               
public notice will be administered to businesses.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WAGONER  said that  when hearings on  SB 24  begin again                                                               
during the interim, he will be informed.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
11:21:14 AM                                                                                                                   
NANCI MORRIS-LYON, Managing Partner,  Alaska Sportsmen Bear Trail                                                               
Lodge, testified in  support of SB 24. She said  she was a member                                                               
of the original  task force involved in this  bill. She explained                                                               
that  the sport  fishing  industry has  grown  beyond belief  and                                                               
future  growth needs  to be  controlled in  order to  protect and                                                               
preserve the  state' fisheries and  maintain an industry  that is                                                               
competitive and  healthy. She acknowledged the  unique challenges                                                               
found in  various areas of the  state and it is  important not to                                                               
impose  unnecessary  restrictions in  areas  where  they are  not                                                               
needed. A bill in this form  would give credibility to the sports                                                               
fishing  industry  and  would  stabilize  the  industry  for  the                                                               
future. She  said that  this bill will  assist ADF&G  through the                                                               
documentation of the  commercial aspects of the  industry and its                                                               
effects on fisheries throughout the state.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
11:25:13 AM                                                                                                                   
ALAN LEMASTER, representing himself,  expressed concerns about SB
24. He  noted that he  was not aware of  the task force  while it                                                               
was  going  forward.  He  explained  that  he  can  see  a  great                                                               
advantage  in  having  a [Sport  Fishing  Guide  Services]  board                                                               
because it  will give  them solidarity  between the  industry and                                                               
the  Board of  Fisheries meetings.  He noted  that in  the Copper                                                               
River Valley the growth patterns  in the industry have decreased,                                                               
not increased.  He said that  his concerns with the  current bill                                                               
include  the following:  the  assistant guide  age  limit of  18;                                                               
confusion between what a guide,  guide outfitter, and transporter                                                               
is; and  the organization of ADF&G  in regards to the  log books.                                                               
He said  "I don't think the  guide system is broken  in the state                                                               
and I don't think we [should] fix it until it is."                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
11:29:24 AM                                                                                                                   
MIKE SCOTT,  representing himself, testified in  opposition of SB
24. He said that the entire state  does not have to be wrapped up                                                               
in this licensing  issue and there are already  numerous hoops to                                                               
jump through. He  said that if this bill goes  through the sports                                                               
fishing industry  will have  a limited  entry similar  to halibut                                                               
and commercial fishing.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
11:30:57 AM                                                                                                                   
SCOTT EGGEMEYER,  Owner, Alaska  Bear Paw Drifters,  testified in                                                               
support of SB 24. He said  he guides in Prince William Sound, the                                                               
Kenai and Kasilof Rivers, Steep Creek, and Anchor Point.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
11:31:27 AM                                                                                                                   
DENNIS  RANDA, Owner,  Randa's Guide  Service, expressed  concern                                                               
about SB  24. He said  that orderly development is  important and                                                               
legislation that  disrupts this  is unwise. He  added that  he is                                                               
also concerned with  the age restriction on  assistant guides. He                                                               
noted that legislation is needed due  to the growth of the sports                                                               
fishing industry.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
11:33:43 AM                                                                                                                   
DAVID   GOGGIA,  President,   Kenai   River  Guide   Association,                                                               
testified in support of SB 24.  He noted that the association was                                                               
present  throughout the  task force's  and  ADF&G's meetings.  He                                                               
acknowledged that  there are some  things that need to  be worked                                                               
out  in regards  to the  bill and  a special  task force  will be                                                               
positive. He said that the  bill will increase the accountability                                                               
for all people in the sports fishing industry.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
11:35:16 AM                                                                                                                   
JERRY  STRIEBY, Vice  President, Kenai  River Professional  Guide                                                               
Association,  testified in  support  of SB  24.  He stressed  the                                                               
importance of  having representation and  a voice for  the sports                                                               
fishing industry, such as a  guide board. Currently, the voice of                                                               
the industry  is through  individuals and this  does not  go very                                                               
far.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
11:37:06 AM                                                                                                                   
CHACO PEARMAN, Owner, Pristine Charters,  testified in support of                                                               
the concept of  the Sport Fishing Guide Services Board  in SB 24.                                                               
He  noted that  with  the federal  program  restrictions and  the                                                               
halibut  charter  people  are  going  to  change  their  business                                                               
models. For  instance, clients  that stay  at bed  and breakfasts                                                               
are going to be able go out  fishing and the fish caught will not                                                               
be reported.  He said that  there have  been issues in  Kodiak in                                                               
the  past with  businesses that  are  not accounted  for and  are                                                               
unenforceable. His concern is for  the resource. He noted that it                                                               
is  important that  this bill  capture everyone  involved in  the                                                               
industry so that the resource can be managed properly.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
11:40:19 AM                                                                                                                   
REED MORISKY,  representing himself,  testified in support  of SB
24. He  said he was  a member of  the original task  force, which                                                               
codified a  sport fishing board.  The board would  categorize and                                                               
professionalize   sport    fishing   guides,    outfitters,   and                                                               
transporters.  He  agreed  that  there were  several  groups  who                                                               
should have been  included earlier; however, this  could be taken                                                               
up with the resource committee  task force during the interim. He                                                               
acknowledged  that   the  bill  is   long  and  there   are  some                                                               
misunderstandings that can be overcome  with more information. SB
24  will ensure  the  continued viability  of  the sport  fishing                                                               
industry and provide a mechanism for sustainable growth.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
11:42:54 AM                                                                                                                   
DENNIS  PETRE, charter  operator, testified  in opposition  of SB
24.  He  suggested  going  to  the  NOAA  [National  Oceanic  and                                                               
Atmospheric  Administration] website  that  lists operators  that                                                               
received limited  entry permits and contact  these individuals to                                                               
get more input.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
11:43:54 AM                                                                                                                   
MIKE MCCRURY, representing  himself, commented on SB  24. He said                                                               
the  source of  debate comes  from ADF&G's  policy in  selling an                                                               
unlimited amount  of fishing licenses to  non-residents. He noted                                                               
that  the value  of  non-commercial users  goes  well beyond  the                                                               
economic interests of  guides. Preserving Alaskan's opportunities                                                               
will only  be achieved  when ADF&G  limits, where  necessary, the                                                               
sale of fishing licenses to non-residents.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
11:45:47 AM                                                                                                                   
WADE  WILLIS, former  owner of  a fish  guiding business,  stated                                                               
concern for the  Sport Fishing Guide Services  Board addressed in                                                               
SB 24. He said that that the  board is nothing more than a carbon                                                               
copy  of the  mistakes  that have  been made  with  the Big  Game                                                               
Commercial Services Board. Self-serving  boards do not accomplish                                                               
anything, but rather  decrease the stability of  the industry, he                                                               
said.   Important   industries    throughout   Alaska   rely   on                                                               
occupational   licensing   to   provide  stability   and   career                                                               
opportunities and it  does not have to be a  burden. Alaska has a                                                               
responsibility  to  ensure  that  tourism, as  the  state's  most                                                               
important renewable resource, is the  best it can be. He stressed                                                               
the  importance of  looking beyond  two years,  in order  to make                                                               
sure that  for the next  50 years  Alaska has a  guiding industry                                                               
that   respects  the   resource,  the   industry,  and   provides                                                               
stability.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WAGONER said that he respects Mr. Willis' perspective.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
11:49:08 AM                                                                                                                   
CHRIS BRANHAM,  representing himself, testified in  opposition of                                                               
SB 24. He  said he has been addressing these  issues for the past                                                               
30 years and  this bill is meritless and  doesn't benefit anyone.                                                               
He  explained  that   the  issue  can  be   resolved  by  putting                                                               
restrictions and limitations on the  people who use the resource.                                                               
The  sports  fishing industry  has  never  been given  legitimate                                                               
responsibility  by  the  state  of Alaska  and  he  stressed  the                                                               
importance of  the industry. However,  the state does  nothing to                                                               
support it.  He said  that this is  the responsibility  of ADF&G.                                                               
The  constitution gives  first priority  to subsistence  use, the                                                               
second use is  commercial, and the third use  is recreational. He                                                               
stressed the need to enhance the sports fishing industry.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
11:52:29 AM                                                                                                                   
CHRIS ZWOLINSKI,  hunting guide, testified  in support of  SB 24.                                                               
He said  that it  is important  to regulate  the resource  now in                                                               
order to  prevent damage  in the future.  He suggested  that more                                                               
public forums are needed.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
11:54:20 AM                                                                                                                   
STAN MALCOM,  Petersburg Charter  Boat Association,  testified in                                                               
support of SB 24.  He noted that he was a  member of the original                                                               
task force which  generated the information leading up  to SB 24.                                                               
He explained that the association  has always supported the guide                                                               
license  requirements and  the log  book program.  A professional                                                               
service board is in the best  long term interest of the industry,                                                               
the  state,  and  all  fisheries resource  users.  The  bill,  in                                                               
encompassing the  non-guided sector, which is  continuing to grow                                                               
in Southeast Alaska and is a  huge resource user, would be a huge                                                               
step  forward.  The  Sport Fishing  Guide  Services  Board  would                                                               
promote some self-regulation from within the industry.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
11:57:08 AM                                                                                                                   
CO-CHAIR  WAGONER  announced  the  conclusion  of  teleconference                                                               
testimony.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
11:57:26 AM                                                                                                                   
JOEL HANSON,  Captain, The Boat  Company, expressed  concern that                                                               
some types of businesses are  not being fairly represented within                                                               
SB  24. He  said  the  company has  been  operating in  Southeast                                                               
Alaska  for 30  years. While  they do  not focus  specifically on                                                               
sport fishing  it is a  critical component of their  business. He                                                               
said  that the  sport  fishing  industry has  a  wide variety  of                                                               
models both  on salt  and fresh  water and the  bill needs  to be                                                               
expanded to include a larger group of concerned individuals.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
12:01:00 PM                                                                                                                   
CO-CHAIR WAGONER closed public testimony  on SB 24. [The bill was                                                               
held in committee.]                                                                                                             

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